Advertisements

On Muammar Gaddafi and Libya

The issue in Libya is gaining so much steam now and is being covered everywhere. Well here is our facebook discussion on the matter. After watching the clip below, a few people had something to say.

Bones opines:

He speaks the truth you know

Aero Max says:

this is a non bias truth in a transparent form… i subscribe to this all the way, those people lack nothing, if nigerianz enjoys half of what libyans are enjoying from their goverment, i am very sure non of us will complain even if they stay for the whole generation.. the funny thing is that even at its worst .we are not doing anything about it.. who gives a damn about DEMOCRACY ? when it cannot deliver basic amenities. ALL we need is A Government that can deliver to its people what their basic needs are. who cares if it is AUTOCRACY or WHATEVER.

Willy says:

Aero I am damn with u…If Nigeria a democratic country where the government is been change every four or five years they dont enjoy up to half of wht the Libyans are enjoying in their country,then they call Gaddafi tyrant. Equatorial Guinea,formerly Spanish Guinea.In that country they make money from oil just like in Kuwaite, the population there is not up to one million,they dont have hospitals there,no good schools,last week my friend that went there on an ong works say they weren’t there eggs to buy.their president Teodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo assumed office 3 august 1979,I am sure the Eu and United States dont know that country exists,but they buy oil from them.

Hans:

I mean what is this business of America to the world? This country is going through a lot already. This man is a man of truth. I sometimes get buttered by his words, because at one point I fall into it. Why is Obama allowing these people to push him. Obama should be smart enough to know to get this statement that Hillary Clinton said and I coauthor ” I will not be a secretary of state any more if Obama wins”. now you are invading Libya, what for? I was saying on buni the other time that, the people of Libya are very stupid… and I will say it blank here, Qaddafi is trying to unit the whole of Africa and he is moving in the right direction. And this is a treat to the western world. When the conference was held in Ghana, almost a common conclusion came into agreement, until ivory coast opted to send a concern letter to it’s allied to before they could do something. What happened? Aint they into tribal war over governance? Until when shall the black man learn. But I am telling you, this is all a aim at Saudi Arabia…but if America wants, they should try and see… it’s very sad… but God is our helper… Long Live Africa, Long live Ghana.

Buni says:

HANS, I started nodding my head while reading your post and I continued nodding it till I reached a certain point. Please Sir, how is Ghadaffi trying to unite all Africa and how is that a threat to the Western world? This man has been in power for 42 years and has not united anything. Now that his overthrow is imminent, you tell me he is trying to unite the world?

Buni says:

AEROMAXX, I agree with you. It began an argument yesterday where I told them that it is better for your country to return to military rule. It seems the other side of the fence (civilians) are not better either.

Willy:

Buni I dont think you read African news,thats why you may not know Gaddafi is trying to unite Africa.Thats a threat to the western world because once Africa is unite they will hardly cheat them politicaly and economicaly.

Hans:

Ok. U remember there was an African united conference held in Ghana sometimes ago? He “Qaddafi” and eX President Kuffour of Ghana both co-chaired the conference. Buni…do you know why Ghanaian’s was instigated to over throw Kwame Nkrumah? Nkrumah was on the same page. Qaddafi has tried all he could. I know he was been greedy in power..(power drunk).. but Buni, if me and you was living rent free, electricity free, everything almost free.. and at the end of every month, u get some money in your accounts ” from monies we made from oil” tell me what would have been your reaction? where did he go wrong? all the invasion in the Arab countries was all a aim at Saudi Arabia.. but believe u me, they dare not try. You heard what President of Russia Vladimir Putin said.. ” let them invade them and we will sit and watch. We will not play a part in this game, but when the man America brought to bring peace to the world will be remote controlled to help rebels over throw any government and they live in democratic world, then so be it. But Qaddafi should be strong”. When Nkrumah was spending money in other parts of Africa to bring us all together? what happened? where is Ghana now? why is Ghana always calling on the dead man they saw no good in? The Jamaican’s are adopting this method ” Nkrumah’s policies”.. and look at their growth rate in just 6yrs? So tell me is the problem here that the man has held power for too long? Buni…. sometimes in life a broad picture is the eyes of the cat, that is why u can only attack it and killing it in a blank spot. Lets learn… this is really sad and who are the people dying? innocent souls. Who started the firing of arms? Is it no these same rebels? why would they call on the western world to send them arms? U see, the foolish man sips from his cup and later spit in it and drink from it again…. you will see what is unfolding now… Long Live Africa.. Long live Ghana. Long Live Nigeria.

Buni:

Wow, niceee HANS. So much knowledge.

Sia:

ewwwwwwwwwww…political discussion. yuk!!!!. Do u guys wanna talk about Shoes now? OMG!!!!!! i saw this nice pair of Louboutin’s at Macys, they are totally to die for……..LOL, sry guys continue your yab.

Hans:

lol@Adul Okpe is an inspiration too. I like his comments and u know I love politics. Sia please delete ur post.. this is about our nation.. not shoes. Lol

Buni:

But HANS, you know that America is not such a country that will listen to a mere Youtube clip of one who seems to dislike everything American. I think they will do everything to remove him from power.

Hans:

Buni. you I sometimes though I thought Mohammad Abidjan was a dictator, when Americans was pushing people to do what they got to do, what did he do? He told America to come take him out of power… and what did he do? didn’t he defeat the demonstrators? in resent times, I heard Hillary Clinton was saying the people of Iran needs freedom.. so what? is that their business. You see now the allied forces are hitting Qaddafi and do you find the pleasant… I wish they loose this. He better call on Russia quick and we will see what next. this is foolishness..

The rest of the discussion will go into comments. Enjoy

Advertisements

Posted on March 21, 2011, in Global/World Issues and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 8 Comments.

  1. I would like to join this discussion, but like the proverbial mosquito in a nudist colony, I am not sure of where to start or begin. What exactly are we arguing here? It would help if we can separate the issues so that we can effectively deal with these complex issues. It is easy to listen to one simple clip on Youtube and use that as your support or anchor for some of your views. But that will be a very lazy approach.

    I propose that we actually read or study a bit more of the subject in question, so that we can form some more informed opinion on what is actually happening before us here.

    So, what are we arguing here? That Gaddafi, the mad dog of the Middle East, be allowed to continue his murderous killings of the Libyan people because Farakkhan thinks its a great idea? In case you don’t know, the Nation of Islam, which Minister Farakkhan leads, is in the pockets of Gaddafi and his oil money–so do not be surprised that he would voice this opinion. What you should ask yourself here are: is there any sense in the actions of these Libyan rebels? Is Obama’s policy here the wisest? What are the other countries of the world doing with regard to this Gaddafi issue? What may be the likely outcome of present policies etc.

    Please let us not reduce this to a simplistic black or white matter. It is not as simple as it is. And for those that are drawing parallels to Nigeria or Ghana, please be informed that Libyan politics is so different from Nigeria’s or Ghana’s.

  2. Marvin Breaker says:

    this man can Voice, all i know is anywhere there is oil there u see Americans, they hunt for oil, like we hustle for money, and they will do anything to get it, i mean”anything”,TRUST ME!!!

  3. Hans Says:

    I pardon to tell you that, this is not just about Qaddafi and what he got and not got. You are getting something wrong here… Who started the firing? Has America not tried this long before and failed. Do you hear what China and Russia are saying? Have you forgotten the 3rd world war? Go read about the fall of Dr. Kwame Nkrumah of Ghana and come back. Farrakhan is another spectator like me and you, but when people make sense of any issue, is it not for us all to learn from it? These rebels started a demonstration… and what next? When they were pushed back to stop the demonstration , they started with stones. Tell me which demonstration on earth do get state police involved? I which you will know the scoop of this because it is very sad. Forget about Farrakhan… just tell us your point of view. This man Qaddafi is human like me and you. U don’t want to compare Ghana/Nigeria to what? We have a democratic nation, yet what? greedy bastards loot monies and me and u do what? keep sending money back home. ” Half a loaf is better than none. I am waiting on your opinion. thanks…

  4. Prince Ugo says:

    Wonderful point Hans Boachie

  5. Hans says:

    There are many instances to this. I will not even stress on the USA’s business there in Libya; but it is just too obvious. All I am saying is that, Obama should look at the wider picture? France benefits a lot from Libya’s oil? For all these year they benefited from the oil, didn’t they see Qaddafi was evil, a massacre and all that names they using on him? Why do you think America lost the Sudan war? Because the people later noticed their oil was been looted. Let me stretch back on the affairs now… my brother we are all Africans like I am saying. The point is when the demonstration started who fired guns first? Forget about all this usa policy bro and let’s focus on our African country been brutalized by each other. Usa foreign policy is always a broken alley. Now if they move Qaddafi out? Who will be the next president as they want? You will see…at the end of the day, oil will be the main issue. We all hear it over the news that…the oil has no business in USA invasion, yet gas prices are going up day in day out. Let not be blinded by anything.. Let us look at the picture widely and make our points clear. So now we all understand that the USA owns the world? Fellas USA is making enemies day in day out. It is not even like the days when you travel and they see u holding a USA passport and they bow to you… people look at you and laugh at you… This whole fights in African/Libya is all about someone dissatisfaction and personal interest. Bring your mind to African Tradition when they didn’t know the Bible, people feared to do evil… but now what? Yes… until African learn to do things their own way, like the Chinese and Japanese did… we will remain poor and always be used by our own people with the influence of foreign/ western terminologies rocking behind closed doors and infesting our people with dirt to fight against our own people… please don’t amend states of anybody trying to hate America, because we are all here. But what is wrong is wrong. Look at Afghanistan.. what happened? Now the USA is saying sorry… why? What is wrong for the invasion in the first place.. they have left this country and their people to build their country back… how would they do that? After innocent and knowledgably people killed, school burnt down, human displaced and those who call themselves the government are now sucking their own peoples blood. For how long will it go like this? Tax payers monies been displaced and used for unnecessary things. Why do you think congress and the democrats are mad? I leave it unanswered… May God have mercy on us… Long Live Africa.

  6. First of all, Hans Boachie, I am not in favor of Obama’s decision to get the US involved in this fight. Let us be clear on that issue first before it begins to look like we are talking past each other. I think that the US is already bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan, and is also thoroughly stretched thin all over the globe. Therefore I do not think that the US should be getting involved in more conflicts. Besides, Obama has more pressing economic issues at home to address. That is where his attention and focus should be on–not on some interventionist foreign policy.

    Having said that though, this issue is not as simple and as straight forward as you think. I am not sure whether you are preaching support for Muammar Gaddafi or what exactly you are advocating. Granted, the US has dabbled into many wars throughout the years, and they are almost always in America’s self-interests, but I would be hesitant to advance a claim that the US has not acted in ways to benefit other people throughout her violence-laden past. The fine nuances of America’s foreign policy is worthy of great study, that is why i would caution against wholesale condemnation of US foreign policy or wholesale approval. Where the US gets it wrong, our duty as American citizens of African ancestry, ought to be to point it out. And where the US gets it right, we should also point that out as well. Otherwise, we turn ourselves into chronic and habitual haters of the US, for whom nothing the US does is ever right.

    Therefore, it is important to disentangle the issue before us so that we can train our attention on the issues that are really relevant here. There will come a time to discuss other aspects of the issue including your incipient Pan-Africanism, but I am not sure now’s the time.

    Let us analyze the issue:

    1) Muammar Gaddafi is not a saint nor a victim. Let us get that straight. This man is a self-serving thug, a ruthless tyrant, and is hated or detested in the Arab world and in the west. However, he is a shrewd politician and he has figured out a way to remain relevant in Libya. So, let us stop trying to paint him as one poor helpless man who is fighting off Western intimidation. Read his history and you will see that his life has always been characterized by conflict and agression, either against perceived Western foes or even Arab or Islamic enemies.

    2) In 42 years, Gaddafi has remade the Libyan state to his image. His corruption and brutality, and his reliance on an internal secret police has ensured that he maintained his cast-iron grip over Libya. Libya has no working constitution, and really does not have some functioning checks and balances to Gaddafi’s power. Enemies were dealt with by instruments of the state which were entirely at Gaddafi’s disposal. After all, as an oil-producing nation, you know that he has the financial wherewithal to achieve whatever goals he has set for himself.

    3) Gaddafi might have provided free education and housing; and there are many Libyan people who are actively employed by him and thus recipients of state largesse, but the Libyan people want change. There is high and rising unemployment (as high as 21%), there is scarcity of food and water. In fact Libya imports 75% of its food.

    4) So you say “And so what?” Well, the Libyan people, with no democratic institutions, or a separation of powers to act as checks and balances to Muammar Gaddafi’s rule, have found out that they have no means of getting redress for their concerns. What rights do they have in Gaddafi’s libya? Hardly any. One famous person once said “Give me liberty or give me death!” What you see happening is that the Libyan people, after 42 years, want a change. They want an accountable government, they want more freedoms but above all, they want their basic needs met. This same issue is happening all over the Middle East. The long oppressed people are finally saying “It is enough! We want better”

    5) Sadly, if West Africans were alert and mobilized, and truly tired of the reckless incompetence of her leaders, the people in these West African countries would be taking similar measures to dislodge themselves of the strangehold of corrupt officials. Look at Egypt, Tunisia, Jordan, Bahrain, Iran and other parts of the middle east–you will notice that it is the PEOPLE themselves that are rising up and demanding more from their respective governments. So, it is rather simplistic or perhaps disingenuous to turn around and start blaming the US for the instability in these places.

    6) Hosni Mubarak chose to leave quietly when the Egyptians indicated that they were tired of him. Rather than use an efficient Egyptian military to kill and bomb the protesting Egyptians, he chose to remove himself from the picture. The same thing happened in Tunisia–the indicted leaders fled and made way for the success of the people’s revolution. In Saudi Arabia and Jordan, the kings of these places quickly reshuffled the government and made visible moves to pacify the citizenry. What did Gaddafi choose to do? He could have acted in ways that showed he understood the complaints of his people. He could have splashed some dollars around, fired or reshuffled some ministers , and made moves that may fool Libyans into thinking that he was listening to their concerns and desiring to bring about change. Instead, he chose to lie through Libya’s state controlled media that it was just a handful of rebels which would be driven away quietly. When the revolution caught steam, he descended on his own people with fighter jets and bombs because they dared to express their wish for change. And what do I find here? Africans praising Gadaffi for his brutalization of the Libyan people.

    7) So Hans, this issue is not that simple. What should be done, when a dictator with advanced weapons and bombs decides to wipe out a section of his country for going against him? Should the world just sit back, fold their arms and watch this crazy man kill off all his opposition? If you have any shred of decency or humanity in you, your answer should be a resounding NO. But should the US lead that charge? Here, I agree with you that the US should not lead that charge. This was probably why Obama kept quiet all along. The US is a superpower and we have seen that there are people who will blame the US whether they act or do not act. If they do not act, there are people that will say that the US is not really interested in the spreading of freedoms across the world because when people who were fighting for freedom needed American intervention, the US did nothing. They will remember Rwanda, Darfur, Congo, and other parts of the world where the US did not directly intervene. But as you can see, it is not easy to commit one’s troops to the cause of freedom. Many European nations will not lift a fat finger in the defence of helpless people; if the US refuses to do something then tough luck to you cos the Europeans are not coming.

    8.) If the US gets involved somehow, then some cynical person will accuse the US of meddling in other people’s affairs. Some will say they acted only out of selfish interests. But Hello?? that is the name of the game. Every country should be acting in their own best interests. When it comes to politics, there are no permanent friends, just permanent interests. And so, if the US calculates that their action in some part of the world is morally justifiable and also has an economic advantage, that is not something to condemn them about–because America’s enemies are also acting for their best interests as well. In case you are not aware, there are reasons why China, Iran, Venezuela, North Korea and even Russia are seemingly always opposed to the US. Go and live in those countries and then we shall see whether you will have a change of heart when it comes to how the US pursues her own self-interests.

    9) So, the UN condemned Gaddafi’s actions. They approved of a no fly zone to bring a temporary ceasefire. But none of these actions are deterring Gaddafi from his ruthless retaliation against the poorly armed rebels who were opposed to his rule. Now, what should be done seeing that Gaddafi has indicated that he intends to die a martyr? Should the world just sit back and watch him destroy his people? I think this was why France and other countries decided to get involved. Their involvement meant that the US will not go it alone like they did with the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. If there is a broad support for the UN decisions, then you can see why Obama decided in the end not to be left out a global decision to stop Gaddafi’s madness. I do not support Obama committing troops, but since the US does not want to take a backseat while France and other European powers take on the task of stopping Gaddafi, I think i can partially understand why Obama acted.

    10) In 2012, when Obama seeks re-election, he would be assessed on how he acted on the domestic and the foreign fronts. He wants to be able to say that he was wise and cautious with his domestic economic policies, and that he was also strong on foreign or international scene–meaning that he can be depended on to beat back any foreign threats to US interests. I am afraid however, that in sending airforce troops to Libya, he may be making the mistakes his predecessor made–he will be committing the US and its already thinly-stretched military to ANOTHER muslim country. Pfft–and they said Obama was a muslim sympathizer–yet he is continuing the Bush foreign policy on Afghanistan when he should have ended that war a long time ago.. and now, he is dabbling into fresh conflicts. Maybe he is not as weak or as pacifistic as people think. There are many other issues involved, but I’ll stop here for now.

  7. I am in tandem with the submission above. What is the benefit of democracy where d basic amenities are lacking? Libyans u v no problem with Gaddafi at all Western world is igniting u people to fight so dt they can come in and get what they v planned for years. So Libyans beware. Nigerians v been practicing Democracy for quite a long time but no security, water, education power n health.

  1. Pingback: A Tyrant’s Last Stand? « Godfather's Panorama

What Are You Thinking About This?

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: